11-05-2008 05:14 PM
oskibear wrote:From LA Times:
70% of African Americans backed Prop. 8, exit poll finds
12:10 PM, November 5, 2008A lot of Obama/Yes-on-8 voters? The Associated Press exit polls show that African Americans and Latinos backed Proposition 8 in good numbers. Details here from AP:
California's black and Latino voters, who turned out in droves for Barack Obama, also provided key support in favor of the state's same-sex marriage ban. Seven in 10 black voters backed a successful ballot measure to overturn the California Supreme Court's May decision allowing same-sex marriage, according to exit polls for The Associated Press.
More than half of Latino voters supported Proposition 8, while whites were split. Religious groups led the tightly organized campaign for the measure, and religious voters were decisive in getting it passed. Of the seven in 10 voters who described themselves as Christian, two-thirds backed the initiative. Married voters and voters with children strongly supported Proposition 8. Unmarried voters were heavily opposed.
Message Edited by oskibear on 11-05-2008 04:43 PM
hispanics said no because of their catholic/religious backgrounds. we all know the man upstairs is gonna start hurling lightning bolts at everyone for letting gays get married. blacks said no because there's a cultural stigma against gays. men are supposed to be manly men and pimp women and have lots of kids. because the number of kids a black man has reflects positively on the man. and gays can't naturally have children.
ok maybe i didn't say that the right way but just pretend i did. i learned this from a book or journal or school or something.
12-16-2008 10:34 AM - last edited on 12-16-2008 10:36 AM
Interesting solution:
http://video.nytimes.com/video/2008/12/15/opinion/
12-16-2008 11:36 AM
oskibear wrote:Interesting solution:
http://video.nytimes.com/video/2008/12/15/opinion/
1194835653812/bloggingheads-ban-marriage.html Take away the state/legal institution called "marriage" and call them all civil unions. Churches can continue to do their religious marriages with civil unions (the legal status) tagging along.
Interesting indeed. My two cents on this whole matter:
Marriage is a sacred religious ceremony that has been around for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Most religions dictate how this ceremoy is to be performed under their specific religion. Also under those religions, they dictated what is sinful and what is not permitted. On Christianity, for example, homosexuality is a sin. Allowing union of people in sin is not just a "no-no" but rather a huge slap in the proverbial face. And in most cases, the religions ask that you be a member of their religion in order to be approved for marriage.
With that said, why do homosexuals want to be part of this religious ceremony called "marriage"? Let the religions have their ceremonies. Allow ALL the rights that a "marriage" has onto civil unions/domestic partnerships. That way, everyone can have equal rights and be happy.
12-16-2008 11:53 AM
changing the name isn't going to solve anything. Homosexuals won't accept and it (they already have domenstic partnerships in california, but they still want to be 'married', ie. Prop 8) and the the religous side will still oppose it no matter what its called.
This is just one of those things where one side wants to make the other side miserable and vice versa, happens all the time, better to just not get involved.
12-16-2008 12:29 PM
12-16-2008 01:23 PM
wtghaha wrote:changing the name isn't going to solve anything. Homosexuals won't accept and it (they already have domenstic partnerships in california, but they still want to be 'married', ie. Prop 8) and the the religous side will still oppose it no matter what its called.
This is just one of those things where one side wants to make the other side miserable and vice versa, happens all the time, better to just not get involved.
you sound like you know exactly what gay people want.. oh..
12-16-2008 01:34 PM
Rhox wrote:
wtghaha wrote:changing the name isn't going to solve anything. Homosexuals won't accept and it (they already have domenstic partnerships in california, but they still want to be 'married', ie. Prop 8) and the the religous side will still oppose it no matter what its called.
This is just one of those things where one side wants to make the other side miserable and vice versa, happens all the time, better to just not get involved.
you sound like you know exactly what gay people want.. oh..
yes...they want to be able to marry
12-16-2008 02:36 PM
wtghaha wrote:
Rhox wrote:
wtghaha wrote:changing the name isn't going to solve anything. Homosexuals won't accept and it (they already have domenstic partnerships in california, but they still want to be 'married', ie. Prop 8) and the the religous side will still oppose it no matter what its called.
This is just one of those things where one side wants to make the other side miserable and vice versa, happens all the time, better to just not get involved.
you sound like you know exactly what gay people want.. oh..
yes...they want to be able to marry
but but.. i'm taken~!
12-16-2008 02:39 PM
12-16-2008 02:45 PM
12-16-2008 03:05 PM
Rhox wrote:
i never kiss and tell... ::looks at Drak::
i don't date koreans
12-16-2008 03:13 PM
wtghaha wrote:changing the name isn't going to solve anything. Homosexuals won't accept and it (they already have domenstic partnerships in california, but they still want to be 'married', ie. Prop 8) and the the religous side will still oppose it no matter what its called.
This is just one of those things where one side wants to make the other side miserable and vice versa, happens all the time, better to just not get involved.
The argument is that domestic partneships do NOT provide the all the same rights (alluded to in the link as 5-6 things that married people get that domestic partners don't). Religious marriages are 2 distict entities, the religious sacrament/rite/ceremony/etc that is the purview the religious institution and not legally recognized, and the civil contract that the state recognizes. This "solution" decouples the civil contract by using a different name for the civil part. This should allow churches to continue to marry or not marry whomever they please while allowing everyone to get their state legal rights.
While I agree that each side wants to make the other miserable, I'll bet this play of semantics could make a 1-2% difference in the polls.
12-16-2008 03:27 PM - last edited on 12-16-2008 03:31 PM
oskibear wrote:
wtghaha wrote:changing the name isn't going to solve anything. Homosexuals won't accept and it (they already have domenstic partnerships in california, but they still want to be 'married', ie. Prop 8) and the the religous side will still oppose it no matter what its called.
This is just one of those things where one side wants to make the other side miserable and vice versa, happens all the time, better to just not get involved.
The argument is that domestic partneships do NOT provide the all the same rights (alluded to in the link as 5-6 things that married people get that domestic partners don't). Religious marriages are 2 distict entities, the religious sacrament/rite/ceremony/etc that is the purview the religious institution and not legally recognized, and the civil contract that the state recognizes. This "solution" decouples the civil contract by using a different name for the civil part. This should allow churches to continue to marry or not marry whomever they please while allowing everyone to get their state legal rights.
While I agree that each side wants to make the other miserable, I'll bet this play of semantics could make a 1-2% difference in the polls.
Or we could just make up a lot of government budget shortfall by opening up taxation on all churches. This will give them the right to manipulate the American political process in a more open and transparent way than they have been doing, up to this point. I think a tax rate of 10% would be appropriately ironic.
12-16-2008 03:50 PM
I have a feeling that most gays/lesbians don't want to get 'married' for those 5-6 minor differences between a domestic partnership and marriage. They want to be recognized as being 'married' in the social aspect of the word. This isn't a fight for a few minor rights that domestic partnerships don't grant (most probably don't even know of these minor differences).
Changing the word used in our laws isn't goiong to suddenly make everyone change the meaning or usage of the word. Heterosexuals will still use the term 'married' and homosexuals will want to be able to say the same thing, not 'Hi i'm civil unionized with this person'.